Former Defence Minister Andrew Little disagrees with AUKUS’s criticism of China threat

Former Defence Secretary Andrew Little.
photo: RNZ/Samuel Rillstone

Former Defence Minister Andrew Little said he “strongly disagreed” with AUKUS critics about whether China posed a threat, saying it posed a substantial threat to the Pacific that had not been seen before.

Little, who was defence minister and minister for the Intergovernmental Security Bureau and New Zealand Security Intelligence Service in the previous government, gave a speech at Canterbury University titled “Indo-Pacific Security Concepts: Challenging Choices for New Zealand in Unpredictable Times”.

In a wide-ranging speech, Little laid out his involvement in discussions about AUKUS while in government and his views on the threat posed by China and the U.S. commitment to the Pacific.

“I think New Zealand faces unprecedented material threats in our region. Those threats are not direct physical conflicts, but they come from actors whose belief systems and values ​​and whose behaviour elsewhere in the world demonstrates that they are willing to flout international laws and norms,” ​​he said.

New Zealand is not a member of the AUKUS agreement but has indicated that it will participate. The second “pillar” of the agreementwhich involves the sharing of defense technology.

The opposition Labour Party claims the government’s rhetoric on AUKUS has shifted and it now shows a real willingness to sign up to Pillar 2. The government insists it is following the same process initiated by the previous Labour government.

Little said comments made by members of the new government soon after they were sworn in were unhelpful and said there were rumours of a desire to sign a Pillar Two agreement as quickly as possible.

However, he said Winston Peters’ recent comments “seemed correct” and that there was nothing to respond to as no proposals had been made.

“My hope is that this further stagnation in the development of the Pillar Two idea will be an opportunity for us to discuss the issues that really face New Zealand. I come back to the question: what best meets our needs, obligations and interests?” he said.

Little said he had discussed Pillar 2 with his counterparts in the AUKUS coalition, but the idea was still in its early stages. No one was sure what participating in Pillar 2 would entail, or whether it would require investment or staff commitments, he said.

“It would be reckless for any government to consider current threat assessments and claim to be acting in the best interests of New Zealand’s national security without also considering how and with whom to work to acquire the military technology that best suits our needs,” he said.

He also disagrees with AUKUS critics’ claim that this is a US plan to contain China.

“There may be some validity to that argument, but if it is used to suggest that there are no threats we need to respond to and that we have no interest in the broader Indo-Pacific, then it serves no purpose and does not further inform our decisions about what we should do as a nation.”

Little said China had undergone a “phenomenal” transformation and New Zealand had benefited greatly from it.

“There is no denying the benefits of China’s growing economic clout and influence,” he said. “We should be careful not to overreact to the usual tensions that accompany the inevitable changes within and between countries as wealth grows. This is simply the inevitable outcome of history.”

However, Little acknowledged that China has embraced “aggressive nationalism,” launched cyber attacks and gone beyond normal PIF procedures in security agreements with Pacific nations.

“I strongly disagree with the view that China’s presence is benign and non-threatening. The nature of China’s activities in the Pacific, its ambitions and behavior in the South China Sea, and its actions in cyberspace make its presence in our neighborhood a source of tension,” he said.

He said while New Zealand was realistic about the threat posed by China, it also had to be realistic about its partners.

Few question the United States’ long-standing commitment to the Pacific, but it remains a long-standing military partner.

He said AUKUS might not matter if New Zealand continued to maintain close diplomatic and military ties with long-standing partners such as the United States, Britain and Australia.